Monthly Archives: May 2012

From the Archive: St Pete Boat Show 2005

I found this recently.  It was written pre-blog, back when we had a house, a 22-foot monohull, and only dreamed about a bigger boat.  I love how worried I was about the kids falling off the boats.  That was before they were full-fledged boat kids.  But if I took them to a boat show today, I’d still have to yell at them for jumping on the trampolines.

St Pete Boat Show 2005 (November 05, 2005)

We took the kids to their first boat show in St. Pete yesterday.

We’ve been trying to get them used to the idea that we may one day live on a boat. They’re intrigued, but understandably are somewhat dubious. Their only prior on-board experience has been a tour on one of my race boats and an afternoon on a pocket cruiser in Maine.

So yesterday we took them on a 36 ft. catamaran. It was the Jaguar, a South African cat. They were at the same show last year, which I thought surprising. Most of the attendees at St. Pete are the Florida builders. Hunter, Catalina, Caliber, Island Packet, Manta…? I had gone to the show specifically to see the Manta, a 42-foot catamaran, but they weren’t there. I was a bit put out.

The boys however, had a ball. I was annoyed and a little stressed out, so I’m sure I dampened their fun, but they definitely got the idea that this boat thing was alright.

I gave them a little tour, pointed out the important parts. “These are called lifelines. They can save your life. Don’t trip on the hatch. See the boom? You should always hold onto something. One hand for you, and one for the boat.” Which technically is the rule for when you’re peeing over the side, but it sounded like a good rule in general and I was paranoid about somebody falling overboard. “This is the bow. These are called trampolines, but they’re not really for…” Too late.

I probably had nothing to worry about. Given my height and size, I am a lot more precarious than they are. The boat was so big, they were hardly aware of the water at all. At one point, Aaron peered through the netting of the tramp and exclaimed, “There’s water down there!” Still, I had visions of somebody taking a bad bounce and going right off the bow. They were oblivious to the danger. I should throw them in the pool fully clothed to make the point.

Still annoyed, I didn’t want to go on any other boats and was ready to head home. The boys were not. They wanted more boats. We found one more their size and the sales rep was very nice to let them play in it.

Afterward I had the treat of paying $28 for 3 hot dogs, a corn dog, a pile of French fries and a smoothie. Still annoyed, I wandered off to browse the displays of anchors, life rafts, engines, and other nautical whatnot. My wife, having a fantastic ability to meet friendly people when I’m not around (go figure), strikes up a conversation with the guy playing kettle drums. It turns out that he and his wife are former charter boat captains. They came ashore to have their kids, now 1 and 3, and are ready to head back out to do the family cruising thing. I love how he describes his shoreside existence: “We have some stuff in Orlando”. It was good for her to have that interaction, talk to folks that share the same dream, and to top it off she scored some cool steel drum CDs.

After lunch, the boys still wanted more boats, but our policy is to “quit while you’re still having fun,” so we left. Although I didn’t get to see the boat that I was looking forward to, it was still a successful trip. The boys got an idea for what kind of boat we’re talking about and they left hungry for more. And a little tired, too.

Circles and Lines

The answer to the unspoken question: yes, we are still here at the dock. And yes, it was driving me crazy. I have—as I always do—finally gotten to the place where I don’t care one way or another and will be ready to go when the time is right. Until I arrive at this peaceful place of surrender, though, I tend to wallow, or, worse, drive Jay crazy asking, “When?” We are still trying to leave, but, as usual, I know very little about my own life or what is best for me, so I am trusting God’s timing, which is rarely early and never late.

It’s taken me awhile to figure out why I get so much more worked up about leaving than Jay does. It’s true that I am more excitable than he is in general, but there is something else at play here. It has to do with the contrasting patterns our lives have taken on during the last decade or so. I commented recently to Jay that his work must be very rewarding: he flies to some city far away, fixes a complicated technology problem for some big company and flies home victorious. You could say that his life follows a linear pattern. Even on the boat his projects have a beginning, middle and end. He sits down, takes the winch apart, cleans and lubricates it, and puts it back together again. Voila! Good as new!

Very seldom do I have that kind of linear project. My life’s shape (at least for the season in which I find myself) is a circle. A dizzying, whirling circle of cooking, laundry, cleaning, diapers, cooking, laundry, cleaning, diapers…throw in homeschooling and baking and you can see why I never have trouble falling asleep at night. I finish one task and go straight into another, turning around to see that the first one needs to be done again. I finish the dishes for breakfast, and it’s time to make lunch. Even the schooling, try though I might to keep it interesting, can become repetitive. One kid moves out of long division just as another moves in. The history lessons which have become our home-schooling mainstay seem to go from war to war to war—the names and dates change, but the pattern doesn’t vary much. My work is certainly rewarding and meaningful, but circular just the same.

That must be why I love jigsaw puzzles so much. In just a few hours, you can see a jumbled pile begin to take shape and within a few days, you have a beautiful picture: order out of chaos. You can then put it neatly in the box, call it finished, and go back to the cycle of daily life, refreshed. Traveling helps me break out of the circular rut, as well. Of course, my tasks stay the same no matter where we are (though making a passage does affect how I do them), but adding the exciting element of exploring, changing the scenery, and unexpected problems or wonderful surprises really throws my circle for a loop. I love every part of voyaging, from planning to passage-making, to arriving and exploring, through to the homecoming. Even when they take me geographically back to the place from which I left, journeys tend to be wonderfully linear, and sometimes I don’t mind being thrown from the carousel.

Best Baby Gear for a Boat, Part II

Awhile back, I posted my review of essential baby gear. That list covered the basics—feeding, diapering, napping and wearing the baby. Now that Rachel has survived her first year, I’ve had a chance to use some other products, and to continue to think about simplifying in order to minimize space and waste. If you’re on a boat, or in a small house, I have found a few products to be indispensable.

My sister gets credit for the first item, as it was an unexpected gift: the Bumbo baby seat ($40, accessories extra). This closed-cell foam chair is molded to fit the backside of a wee one (from about 3 to12 months) so that they can comfortably sit up before they are able to do so unsupported. It has a tray accessory for snacks or toys which I have not used since Rachel figured out how to snap it off.  The chair has proven to be lightweight, sturdy and versatile. We have used it to keep her safe in the shower (no bathtubs on a boat except the galley sink), to sit with us in the cockpit or join us at dinnertime, and as our primary “high chair” for feeding times. We tend to have children who are long and lanky (not unlike their parents), but if your baby is the roly-poly type, his or her legs may not fit the mold of the Bumbo beyond 6-9 months, and so it might not be as useful as it was for us. Also, once mobile, they can pry themselves out of the seat, so you have to really watch them. At $40, it may be a bit pricey for the use you get out of it, so while the seat has been perfect for us, I would recommend borrowing or finding a used one.

Smoothie Pop Lips

We bought several products from Fisher-Price which have served us well. All of our children spent time in a Bouncy Seat ($20-$60 depending on whistles and bells), but we did without electronic music and fancy toy bars. The vibrating feature is necessary for calming fussy babies when you can’t carry them, though Rachel was the exception to the rule as she didn’t like the vibrations. It has limited usefulness, (from about newborn to 6 months) as the baby quickly grows out of the seat. It’s another great product to borrow or buy second-hand. Before babies can stand up on their own, they really want to practice standing and bouncing, and the Fisher-Price Space-Saving Bounce and Spin Froggy ($60) worked well for us on the boat and really didn’t have a big footprint. It also kept her safe and happy on the dock or pool deck. Again, though, once she became mobile, she had no tolerance for being stuck in one place. I really wish some innovative company would come up with a seat that really grows with the baby: a frame with a hammock-like attachment for newborns, an adjustable harness for sitting or standing or jumping, and wheels for a new walker. Not sure exactly how they could make that work, but it would save money and the hassle of swapping one piece of baby gear for another.

Our favorite piece of boat-baby gear was also the cheapest: the Fisher-Price Outdoor Swing ($20). It hangs in our cockpit (or stows in a locker) and never needs batteries as the motion of the boat keeps it gently swinging all the time. It has two settings so that it can recline for an infant—Rachel napped in it as a newborn—or sit up for a toddler. She has spent many happy hours in the swing, and it even does double-duty as a high chair when we have a meal in the cockpit. It is safe, easy to clean, and fun. Give it a little push and it delights the pusher as well as the push-ee. I can whole-heartedly recommend this one, for a boat or for a yard.

This next piece of equipment comes in handy for children who are aware of their bathroom habits at an early age: the Baby Bjorn Potty Chair ($30). Because babies can feel wetness when wearing cloth diapers, I potty-trained all of my children before the age of two. I have always liked the idea of infant potty-training, but I’ve fallen short in practice. Instead of aiming for perfection, I’m just trying to make progress. So far, so good! Rachel started practicing sitting on the potty chair as early as 6 months, just to get used to the idea. It has a high back-rest so even a very small child can be comfortable on it. She started going in it at about 9 months, and goes often when I put her on the potty between diapers. It has a bowl insert that simply comes out to dump and rinse—very easy to clean. For when we’re underway, the potty chair is portable, so she could use it upstairs or in the cockpit if there’s not an adult handy to take her down to the head. It takes up very little room, but someone with really limited space would probably just skip it and wait until the baby could sit on the regular potty. Hopefully, when it comes time for Rachel to get serious about using the potty (around 18 months), she will be well-acquainted with the concept and it should cut down on the transition time from diapers to underpants. And because we wash and hang diapers, that will mean a lot to me and the little laundry helpers around here!

Monkey Shirt

The last piece of equipment I’d like to discuss is the Chicco portable high chair ($35). I have mixed feelings about this chair. On the one hand, it is sturdy, yet comes apart to store in a locker under a dining-area settee. It fits on both our salon and cockpit tables, and wipes clean pretty easily. On the other hand, taking it apart is a challenge and it ends up getting in the way. Also, there is a gap between the chair and table which allows a lot of mess to fall on the floor beneath, even with the super plastic catch-all Baby Bjorn Bibs (2 for $20). At $35, I was willing to take the risk that it would not live up to its excellent reviews. Perhaps as Rachel grows and becomes more adept at feeding herself, I will like it more. Suffice it to say that I haven’t given up on it yet.

As we arrived at the one-year mark with our latest offspring, I looked back over the ten years I’ve been mothering and saw that in some areas, I’ve really changed the way we do things. I have far less gear with the fifth baby than I did with the first. You really just don’t need that much stuff. Only a few items do I consider as needs instead of wants: the cloth diapers, the baby carrier, the compact stroller, and some kind of baby seat. Though I’ve tried lots of different products, in the end I am convinced that where child-rearing is concerned, less is more.

Hurricane Sandy

Team Take Two

We’re beginning to see a return on our investment. We started our family about eleven years ago, not fully realizing what we were doing, and not really planning ahead. We knew that humans don’t hatch from eggs and crawl away, of course, and that we were making a commitment to raise this new life by hand, putting all our resources toward making what I often call “a decent human being.” But we didn’t know how long it would be before we had a good night’s sleep again, or when we would begin to see members of the family pulling their own weight, or when (or if) they would begin to take care of each other. Something magical has happened this past year, but how or when it happened I can’t recall. Maybe it was gradual and I just didn’t see it until it came to fruition. We’ve begun to work together like a team. Not quite a well-oiled machine, but a team just the same.

This became clear to me just after Rachel’s birth. With the last couple of kids, I brought a baby home to a house-full of toddlers. There was no rest for the weary, and for the first year of childhood, everyone’s in survival mode. This time, it was different. With a four-year gap since the last baby and a ten-, nine-, and seven-year-old at home, I came home and really rested. We had planned ahead and talked about how adding a baby would mean everyone working harder to pick up the slack. The kids made breakfast and lunch, folded clothes, did dishes, kept things tidy, fetched cold drinks for their nursing mama, held the baby, and ran errands. They felt important, and we started to see the teamwork that we had always hoped for developing. It isn’t always smooth—there’s still push-back and bickering—but it is the beginning of something great.

One morning, after an interrupted night’s sleep, I came upstairs to find Rachel on the potty eating cheerios out of Sarah’s hand, and Aaron pouring the coffee he had made for me. Eli had already put the clean dishes away, and he and Sam were working on their school work. I blinked a couple of times and then pinched myself. Another time, I sent the two oldest boys to the farmer’s market for bread and fruit. They came back with the needed supplies and had used the surplus to buy a gift for their sister. I shouldn’t have been surprised, but again, I was incredulous. We’ve recently developed a new docking plan which capitalizes on this team ethic. We leave the three oldest children on the dock with fenders in their hands while we take the boat out of the slip and then out the entrance to the marina. The kids get into the dinghy and make a rendez-vous with the mother ship in the river. Coming back in, we take the same steps in reverse: launch the dinghy full of dock hands and then come into the marina with helpers ready and waiting, fenders and lines in hand. The last example is probably my favorite: Jay suggested something we call “team shop.” This works well when he is out of town and I can’t sneak out to the store by myself. Since the kids know exactly which products I buy at the grocery store, I can make out several small lists and split up into teams to divide and conquer. I send two kids to the dairy, two to produce and wait in the line at the deli/bakery with Rachel. People at the store have started to notice this and I’ve become somewhat of a celebrity. Whether we’re famous or infamous depends on who you ask!

This teamwork, more than being an end in itself, is also a means to an end: sailing this big boat requires an able crew. Eventually, we’ll have kids who can navigate, take the helm, trim sails, trouble shoot when there’s a problem, scrub the bottom of the boat, dock and anchor, make repairs, prepare meals, and take watches. It excites me to think that we’re already beginning to see the kind of teamwork developing that will make going on an adventure both fun and relaxing, as many hands make light work. What other rewards we may all reap from this experiment can only be guessed at, but I can imagine nothing but good in the future of someone who learns at an early age to work well with others toward a common goal. People get married partly because the couple can become more than the sum of the individuals, and having productive children can cause that family to become a formidable force!

2011-12 Refit List

A while back I promised a list of the changes we made this past year.  It is a difficult list to make since there were so many and some more significant than others. We started making these changes when we hit the dock in February 2011, so we’re tentatively calling this the 2011-12 refit.  However, since it’s still 2012 and we’re still at the dock I can’t say for sure that the list is complete.

Aircon Strainers – Replaced the cheap plastic strainers on the air conditioners’ raw water pumps with big bronze Grocos.   The strainer baskets are larger, and they open from the top, so we can change them without getting nasty water everywhere.

Ambient Cockpit Lights – We spend a lot of time in our cockpit at night, but were never happy with our lighting.  We have flood lights, which are great if you lose a contact, but aren’t very pleasant to eat under.  We installed some Imtra warm white LED rope lighting under the bimini and are very happy with it.


Anchor
– We upgraded our 44# Delta to an 80# Manson Supreme.

Autopilot Brain – Replaced our AP core pack with a new one we carried as a spare.  The old one is now the spare, but only for temporary use.  An AP failure would likely start a big electronics upgrade.

Autopilot Gyro – Added a rate gyro to the autopilot.  It should improve Otto’s ability to steer to the wind and keep a course in big waves.

Autopilot Power Supply – Wired the autopilot to an unswitched power supply to limit voltage drop.  Utilized separate contacts to turn Otto on and off.  The next autopilot will be 24V.

Auxiliary Refrigerator – For the longest time we had a cooler as a bench seat at the salon table.  We used it mainly for produce and swapped water bottles between it and the freezer.  We replaced that cooler with an EdgeStar refrigerator/freezer chest.  The galley refrigerator and freezer work much more efficiently now that they aren’t constantly having beer and water bottles swapped in and out, and the new unit can back up either of the galley units if they should fail.  We haven’t bothered to compare power usage yet.

Bridgedeck Fountain Covers – Made covers for some of the bridgedeck drains to subdue the geysers of water we get through them in following seas.  Our generator and inverters in particular do not like salt water.

Cabintop Steps – We put a pair of small steps on either side of the cabintop to make getting up and down from the “roof” easier.


Catwalk
– We broke the original one and had to replace it.

Central DC Panel – Replaced the central breaker panel and cleaned up the wiring behind it.  We’ll eventually do the same in the port and starboard hulls.

Cockpit Coaming Rehab – The raw teak cockpit coamings needed some TLC.  We filled the cracks that were developing and then finished the wood with polyurethane to match the table.

Cockpit Cushions – Our cockpit cushions are simple closed cell foam with Phifertex mesh covers.  We made two new cushions and replaced the covers.  We’re planning to snap them down with adhesive SNAD sockets.

Cockpit Drawer – There is a large storage area under the helm seat, but it was only accessible by tilting back the entire seat pedestal.  This was awkward, especially when somebody was trying to drive.  Instead we cut a hole in the side and put in a big drawer.  That makes access easier and removes a major design constraint for a new helm seat design.

Cockpit Locker Lids – We lost a couple to rot and decided to replace them all.  The strip they hinged into was also rotting.  Replacing the backing strip led to repainting the whole cockpit.

Cockpit Shade Panels –We had some simple Phifertex panels made that unroll from the bimini frame and attach to screw eyes around the perimeter of the cockpit.  These give welcome shelter from the sun and the wind, but are pretty useless against rain.  We’re still trying to figure out a dodger.

Cockpit Table – The original cockpit table was ugly and seemed to always be in the way.  We could take it inside, but had to disassemble it to do so.  The new table has a gorgeous solid teak top, and leaves that fold up.  It can pass through the salon door without disassembly.  The table is much bigger, but we generally only fold the leaves out at mealtimes, so the cockpit feels more spacious.

Companionway Steps – The steps from the salon down into the hulls used to be covered with nasty old carpet and were really hard to keep clean.  Now they’re teak and look much better.

Crib – Needed a place for Rachel to sleep.  The crib was designed to transform into a toddler bed, a big girl bed, and finally back into general seating as she grows.

Curtains – With four original bedrooms and bathrooms, and other assorted storage areas, we had a total of 10 hinged doors.  They were constantly blocking access to something if latched, or banging if unlatched.  We removed them and put up curtains instead.

DC Fuse Blocks – Added proper fuse blocks for all the unswitched loads connected directly to the DC busses.

Deck Awnings – We’re continuing to look for a solution to keep the deck and cabin shaded during the summer heat, but doesn’t require us to gather in large areas of canvas during the summer rain squalls.  We’re currently playing with tensioned shade sails, but have not yet had the opportunity to observe them in more than 20 30 knots of wind.

Deck Fill Hatches – The hatches covering our deck fuel and water fill ports have never been very secure.  One was original but didn’t fit quite right and allowed salt water to get into the fuel and water tanks.  Someone went to a lot of trouble to replace the other one with a “waterproof” plastic lid, but the lid was cracked, it leaked, and the ring it sat on was rotting.  We went back to the builder’s original solution, but the new lids are lockable to dissuade someone from adding or removing anything from our tanks.

Dinghy Lift Hardware – We had a piece fabricated for our dinghy lift system, the design of which was modeled from a cut-up beer box.

Dri-Dek – We love this stuff.  We put down Dri-Dek matting in the cockpit and several of our storage areas.  We’re planning to put it in the bottom of the RIB too.

Engine Covers – Our engines are in the hulls under the salon step landings.  To lift the old engine covers, we had to move away the fore and aft steps.  The cover lifted free, and then we had to find somewhere to put it.  Now the covers are hinged and can be opened much easier.

Fourth Cabin – Through a number of cleaning, organization, and cosmetic projects, we have successfully activated our fourth cabin.  We haven’t yet freed all that room’s shelving and closet space, but at least we have a bed for (moderately athletic) guests and crew.

Galley Breaker Panel – Added a new breaker panel to control the port and starboard water pumps, the salt water pump, the propane alarm, and the propane solenoid.

Galley Countertops – We changed from a Formica countertop to a teak veneer.  It was mostly a cosmetic change, but the old countertop had been cut up when we changed the stove.

Galley Faucet – We changed the galley faucet from a household model to a marine model that should help us conserve water.

Gooseneck – This is the joint where the boom meets the mast.  Above that is the tack assembly, often with horns to hook the sail on when reefed.  Our gooseneck was experiencing some unhealthy wear against the mast bracket, the reefing horns were bent, and the tack assembly was threatening to break off.  Some HDPE washers seem to have fixed the wear issue, and a new tack assembly and 5/8" bolt have corrected the rest.  We need to come up with a new method for reefing to keep it from happening again.

Head Renovations – The starboard forward, port forward, and port aft heads all received paint and teak grated floors.  Starboard forward and port aft also received freshwater electric toilets.  Sumps are emptied by remote diaphragm pumps through Jabsco bilge strainers.  The starboard forward and port aft holding tanks now both have diaphragm discharge pumps with dedicated pickups.

Headliner – The original ceilings were 1/8” door skin panels.  They were ugly to begin with and had not fared well over the years.  They were held up by plastic trim and we couldn’t figure out how to get the panels down to access wiring etc. without destroying them.  The new panels are 1/4" ply with a birch veneer.  They’re a little heavier, but can hold a screw, so are easier to put up and take down.


Instruments Changes
– Chart plotter, AIS, NMEA Multiplexer, DSC, Satellite weather, etc.

Jib Cars – The old cars were a tri-roller type.  They didn’t fit our track correctly, which caused some deck damage, which caused some rot.  They also were chafing our rather expensive jib sheets.  We replaced the cars with some very beefy new ones that Garhauer made to fit our track.

Jib Furling Line – The jib furling line is not something you want to have break since the sail will promptly unroll, probably at the worst possible time.  Ours was looking suspicious so we replaced it.

Lazarette Shelving – The storage areas in the aft end of either hull now have shelves where we can store some of the plastic bins that are constantly threatening to overrun us.

Motor Mount – We carry a spare dinghy outboard, but have never had a good place to put it.  So we built a mount for it on the back of the boat.

Nav Station – The nav station was completely redesigned to be more like an office desk and less like a chart table.  The only storage in the old one was under the hinged top.  The new one has four drawers, two of which can fit hanging files, and some shelves which fit the SSB perfectly.

Paint, paint, paint – We painted the topsides, the deck, the cabintop, and the cockpit; basically the whole outside of the boat above the waterline.  The red underbelly still needs to be done, as well as the bottom, but we’ll have to haul out for those.

Pantry Shelving – We added additional shelving to Tanya’s pantry to increase space and organization.

Port Forward Lazarette Hatch – The big 24”x24” hatch on or port bow had a cracked and leaky lens since we’ve owned the boat.  We couldn’t find a direct Gebo replacement to match the others, but the Lewmar Ocean hatches have the same cutout sizes.  I think Gebo makes a better quality hatch.

Port Fuel Fill Hose – The hose between the deck fill and the top of the tank was too short and left a gap at the top of the hose.  You had to be careful to fully insert the pump nozzle all the way down into the top of the hose or the fuel would be pumped down the outside of the hose and into the boat.  This has happened.  Replaced with a longer hose.

Propane Locker – We keep our propane in a vented bridgedeck locker, but expected to get dinged on our next survey.  We built a proper vapor tight propane locker that should pass muster with a surveyor.

Propane Solenoid – We were warned that a propane alarm with integrated solenoid control was a bad idea, but we had to learn it for ourselves.  Now they are separate and we can continue using the propane if the alarm goes off for silly reasons.

Salon Table – The old table was aesthetically out of place and had to go.  The new table top matches the nav desk and galley countertops and has drawers and a cabinet in the base.

Salon Upholstery – We replaced all the cushions in the salon.  The seats are waterproof vinyl with removable Sunbrella covers.  The backs were changed from moveable cushions to a fixed bolster.

Single Side Band – We installed an SSB transceiver.  Don’t really know how to use it yet.

Sound Insulation – Installed SPM soundproofing tiles in the engine and generator rooms.

Spare Dinghy – We got rid of the Porta-Bote and bought a 10’ Avon inflatable. The inflatable should be easier to store and easier to deploy.

Stereo Remote – Added a remote control at the helm for our Fusion stereo.

Tramp Attachment – Changed our trampoline attachments from eye straps to track and slides.

Vacuum Cleaner – We supplemented our big wet/dry vac with a small and light Oreck canister vacuum that was more suitable for carrying around the boat, especially by the kids.

Washer/Dryer – We installed a Splendide combo washer and dryer (vented).  It’s a good washer, and it was a decent dryer for about a month, but it quickly clogged with lint and we can’t figure out how to clean it.

Water Heater – We changed our Isotemp water heater for a Raritan, eliminated the check valve in the cold water supply, and trapped the thermostatic mixer.  We have better temperature control, but I think we’re losing a lot of heat to convection.

Water Meter – Installed a water meter with a remote LCD display in the galley to track our fresh water use.

Watermaker Overhaul – Replaced the feed pumps, membrane, hydraulic hoses, and fittings.

Watermaker Strainer – Replaced the cheap plastic strainer near the watermaker with a big bronze Groco near the thru-hull.

Workbench – Installed a dedicated workbench and tool area in our starboard hull.

Zinc Nuts on Prop Shafts – During our last haulout the yard forgot, or decided not to replace our shaft zincs.  I don’t know if they’re strictly necessary from a galvanic protection standpoint, but I like having them in case our shafts try to slip out.  We had a diver put them back.